Rem RB Question

[exfirefighter1]

My Dad gave me a REM RB I submit the following:
REMINGTON ILION NY USA
PAT is MAY 30 NOV 15th 1864 - APR 17th 1866
SN: 1099
38 CTG E (Black Powder)
Rimfire
Has flipup round front sight
Rear is a flip up peep sight ahead of the receiver.
Is missing the standard open sight infront of the flip up peep sight but has the grove for one. Dad left it on his dresser when he went to Korea and it grew feet and walked away.
All the number match on the front stock rear receiver.
Tried to attach photos to big can email to anyone who can help.
Read the posts and didn't see much on 38 RF.

[oldremguy]

I believe that your gun may be a Remington No.1 Sporting Model rolling block rifle.

P1010283 - Copy.JPG (78.05 KiB) Viewed 4623 times

The top rifle is a No.1 Sporting Rifle, serial# 1299 in 44 rimfire
The bottom rifle serial# is in the 12000 range and is 32 rimfire

P1010286 - Copy.JPG (87 KiB) Viewed 4623 times

Are the patent dates on your rifle in the same location as the top rifle.
Let me know if your rifle looks like one of the above rifles.

Have a good day,
Matt

[exfirefighter1]

Thanks for taking the time to respond.
Noticed that from a lot of you guys. Always helping out.
Guess that why America is so great.
Yes Sir looks like the top rifle.
PAT# is on the top of the plate like your first view and has the same trigger.
Bottom plate has the SN stamped in it and appears that the boy doin the stampn was a little off his mark that day. But you that when you do it by hand. The other SN is under the fore stock on the barrel.
Gunsmith here in Colorado Springs said he thought it was a 1 1/2. But he had not seen one before.
Said if he had any .38 RF CTG he would shoot it out back in a min.
Can't send a photo the system only will allow 256 KB.But will send if ya give me an email or I can send mine.
Guess I don't make it up to the big boy status.
Has screw hole in the fore stock and rear stock where at one point a sling was added or taken off.
Cust Serv rem at REM said it was made in 1870 to 1870 1/2 production.
My Dad said wasn't much good past 70 yards shooting the black powder ctg.
Ed

[Yellowhouse]

Remguy, just out of curiosity what are the calibers of those two rifles.

And please settle an argument, hopefully. I maintain that the stamping 44S on a sporter does not in anyway signify a Sharps caliber but rather Remington Special or System.....or was the 44 RS (44-90) the only one known as the REmington Special?

[roundtop]

Firefighter 1 what you have is what we call the roundtop sporting rifle. Yours was made in last half of 1872. I sure would like to know the barrel length and the numbers on the left side of tangs when you take the stock off. They should be the same. I am collecting any data I can get on these early guns. You can easily shoot your rifle. Find an early centerfire breech block like off of an early military from the 1870-1872 era. The later breech blocks sometimes are hard to make fit. There is a slight difference and I don't know when they changed over. I just got one in 600 sn range and it has later block and won't work. Tried an early block and works fine. You can shoot 38 long Colt in your rifle. I shoot mine and have good accuracy. You must use the heel bullets. Regular 38 special has undersized bullets for your rifle. I think you will like it. Ed

[roundtop]

Yellowhouse I have had this discussion with lots of Remington collectors and we do not have any concrete proof one way or another. However my 2 cents is when they decided to bring out the 44-77 they already had the 44 long and had to call it something. The S could be special (I think) or possibly Sharps. Frank Sellers said Remington designed the 44-77 but I find nothing to verify that. Sharps had a 44-77 rifle in 1869 and Remington did not advertise it until late 1872. In our research we have not yet found an original roundtop sporting rifle under ser. no 1000 in 44-77. The problem is that Remington marked their barrels with bore onstead of groove size. This is in the early catalogs. A rifle with a 44 mark has so far always been a 46 rimfire. The fakers know this so they rechamber them to 44-77 and sell them to people. From the early catalog is the following. 30 is 32 rimfire, 36 is 38 rim or center fire, 42 is 44 rim or center fire long or extra long, 44 is 46 rimfire, 50 is 50 rim or center fire. Probably in the 900's Remington started putting the standard caliber marks on them? Ed

[exfirefighter1]

Roundtop;
Thanks
Pulled the stock off the number is 92396.
What is this number used for?
The stock has the SN stamped on it.

Also read all the posts having to do with RB and had not run into any that deal with 38 RF.
Is there a reason for this?
The gun smith said it was because the black powder rd was not powerful enough to interest any one.
If that was so why would REM invest in making one that wouldn't sell and then make at least 1099 of them.

Ed

[exfirefighter1]

Roundtop;
Also the barrel is 28" from end to breech.
Sorry for got to add that.
Ed

[roundtop]

Thanks for the information Firefighter. Your numbers are in the right range. The number on tang had multiple uses. It told Remington how many actions had been cast and machined. They had people called filers who filed & fit the trigger guard to the receiver and the numbers kept them from getting mixed up with others. Also in the hardening and assemblying process they were kept together. Lots of hand fitting went into these rifles. The number 1099 is the serial number Remington assigned to the rifle. They were probably done in sequence. My records show that of the surviving roundtop rifles I know of, 11% are 38 rim fire. The 38 rimfire was very popular and was made up until production stopped in 1890's. It was more than adequate for deer & smaller animals. You have to remember there were few people and lots of game. Most shots were close range. Most of these early rifles have long chambers so you could use 38 short, long or extra long cartridges in them. Made it simple at the hardware store. Just ask for 38 rimfire and it would fit. I shoot the 38 long and extra long both using the heeled bullet. Ed

[exfirefighter1]

Round Top;

Here are the photos.

[exfirefighter1]

Side view

[roundtop]

Thanks for showing us the pictures. Your rifle is in great condition. Congratulations. Ed

[exfirefighter1]

Would any one hazard ball park guess on what this weapon is worth.