Help identify this double-barrel musket antique Remington

[the_fitzman]

hi,

i will furnish a description followed by pictures. i am curious about the make, age, place of manufacture, and potential value. thanks to anyone in advance for their help. after posting this, i will cruise the forum in hopes that someone else has already figured this out.

i could only attach 3 pictures. will attach more on a subsequent post.

best regards,

the_fitzman
.....................................

description:

32 7/16" barrel (double-barrel)
48 3/4" total gun length

two triggers, two hammers

"REMINGTON" (all caps) is imprinted on the engraved
metal plates above the triggers and behind the
hammers. on the right side, REMINGTON is printed left
to right (the "R" toward the butt, the "N" toward the
barrel). on the left side, REMINGTON Is printed left
to right (the "R" toward the barrel end, the "N"
toward the butt).

also on the engraving plates on both sides is a man
with the gun extended at chest level pointed at what
appears to be two geese, one above the other and they
are identical. there are also plants of a cat=tail
variety.

the barrels are different, with the smaller diameter
barrel on the right side (ball holder side). it is
7/16" (ID) and an octagonal shape. the left barrel is
round and 5/8" (ID). both barrels are 13/16" (OD).
(See pics)

the gun has a pushrod (the one shown is a model and
not original) which is supported by two metal guides
on the barrel and then slides into the stock.

the ball holder is on the right side. one original
ball is covered in a white powder. the ball is approx.
11/32 in diameter with a slight nipple protruding
which i expect is from pouring into the nippers
(shown).

the nippers are 5 1/4" long and have two compartments,
one round for a ball, and one rifled (see pics). the
ball found in the ball holder fits the nippers' round
compartment and i would assume were made from these
nippers. the nippers are scratched above the ball as
though someone was attempting to see if it would be
possible to enlarge the compartment and make a larger
ball. they apparently gave up. (see pics)

the metal around the shoulder rest and up and around
the triggers appears to be brass and of a different
alloy mix than the triggers, hammers, and barrel.

pictures are attached. if i cannot attach them all to
this email, there will be a follow up with the rest of
the pictures.

any help you could lend in determining the model and
year of manufacture would be great. if you dont know,
if you could refer me to someone who may that would be
great. thanks in advance.

best regards,

the_fitzman

[the_fitzman]

attached are more pictures of this musket. thanks.

best regards,

the_fitzman

[Greg T]

I have never seen anything like this! Is it neat! I also will be awaiting answers.
Greg T.

[the_fitzman]

thanks greg - i think it's neat too, but of course i am biased.
i guess my best hope is on this website as i have had next to no luck at all on the internet at large. i'd love it if someone on this website actually owned the same make & model and could tell me all about it. my gut tells me this is a *very* early remington, perhaps pre-1850. but that's just a guess based on pieces of information i have found on the net, on here, and comparisons to other early remingtons gun. my dad showed this gun to a curator at the smithsonian years ago and the guy went ape-s#*@ over it and very much wanted it for the museum.

anyhow, thanks for your comment, and please point it out to all your gun nut buddies in hopes someone will know something about it.

best regards,

the_fitzman

[Greg T]

Just a hunch, but you might want to get in touch with Hunter Kirkland, if he is still at Dixie Gun Works. Those folks have worked with antique firearms for years. Contact him and see if he wants to take a look at your photos. They may pick something up regarding the style of the wood stock, patchbox, etc. All that would mean something to someone.
Greg T

[the_fitzman]

i found the website for dixie gun works and sent them an email. i too am in tennessee, but they are way across the state from me over by the missouri/kentucky borders. however, if i am able to send some pictures to Hunter and he shows interest and knowledge about the gun, i could take a drive over and let him view the piece. thanks alot for your help greg!

best regards,

the_fitzman

[Greg T]

Good! Keep me posted. My home email is: thorsrig at cheqnet.net
Greg T.

[the_fitzman]

i'll be sure to greg. DGW now have the pictures and descriptions. i'll post any findings they share with me on here for the benefit of the RSA.

the_fitzman.

[ChuckD]

Hello fitzmen,
What you have is called a combination gun. With a rifle barrel on the right and a smooth bore "shot" barrel on the left. While it has Remington marked locks it probably wasn't made by Remington. In the early days Remington was primarily a barrel maker. They also sold locks and patch boxes, which are believed to have been made in England. These parts were then used by gunsmiths to make the finished gun. The Remington section of "Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms" states the current opinion on the origin of the early percussion arms with Remington markings. Are there any markings on the barrel? They might be found on the under side, covered by the stock. I hope this helps in your identification.
ChuckD

[the_fitzman]

hi chuck,

many thanks for your contribution.

i have never taken this gun apart, mostly for fear of the screws etc. either breaking or for whatever reason not being able to get the gun back together again. can you give me your opinion on exactly how the barrel might be attached to the stock? there are two clips (for lack of a better word) on the stock, one of which has been broken off, which appear to require pressing in. these clips are frozen stuck, and pushing them is to no avail. that said, i find it hard to believe this is the only mechanism keeping the barrel connected to the stock. there is a large screw between the triggers and the firing pins which appears to travel the width of the stock. is there any chance this screw plays a role in connecting the barrel to the stock? other thoughts i might be missing?

lastly, i would be hesitant to start this operation before trying to loosen or unstick the parts. i am sure experienced men will flinch at this, but what about WD40? if not that, can you recommend something else as a loosening agent? thanks again.

best regards,

mike

[ChuckD]

Mike,
My experience with other percussion shotguns is, that the rear end of the barrels have hooks machined in that fit under the receiver or top of the lock plates. The flat pin in the front of the stock (fore end) hold the barrels down into the stock. If you can remove it, the barrels should lift up in the front and unhook from the rear. I'm not a gunsmith and if the pin doesn't push out easily I would leave it up to someone with more experience. The pin is enlarged on one side, so it will only go out one way. If it were mine I would go slow and easy. It's too good and rare to risk damage.
Good luck,
Chuck
I don't know if there is any thing better the WD40. However, if you use it, use care and sparingly,. It will probably stain the wood.

[the_fitzman]

hi chuck,

we were able to seperate the barrel from the stock and it was just as you said. the pin slide out (with a lil WD40) and the barrel folded upwards. there were hooks on the barrel. i took some pictures (attached).

unfortunately, there were no markings on the barrel or inner stock. also, check out the J.Dickert & Gill gun (bottom right of the page) on this website:

http://www.armchairgunshow.com/otsMF_flintlocks.htm

its from pennsylvania (where we are from) and what intrigues me is the curvature of the stock shoulder fit, which is exagerated somewhat like this gun. some of the other features are similar, like the trigger cage. what do you think? anyhow, thanks again for your suggestions.

best regards,

mike