First breach fired rolling block found ?

[ehull]

From your brief description you have ONE of the earliest of "Remington System" rolling block rifles. The patent markings you mention are those on the earliest of guns. Curiously, I have a similar carbine and it has the number 10 on the barrel, although the frame and other parts are numbered 12. There is another known rifle serial numbered 2. Our forum members would appreciate a more full description of your rifle (i.e. barrel length, total length, how many barrel bands, etc.) as well as photos.

[ehull]

Good photos--thanks from all of us. Yes, that's one of the earliest type "Remington System" rifles, or more properly "rifle musket" with that barrel length. Note that the hammer and breech block pivot pins are held in by screws. Is there a number on the barrel left side just in front of the frame? Please post a photo of the open breech, to show the firing pin and extractor.

[Dick Hosmer]

Sorry to be dense, but which 'museum' is being mentioned? Also, can you elaborate on the caliber? I've looked (briefly) through Hoyem's book and did not find a sure reference. I know it is not correct, but does a normal CF .50-70 round fit the chamber?

Too bad about the sheared pin-retaining screws on such a GORGEOUS rifle. Hopefully they could be restored - also, a lot of the rust in the shot with the "28" can be made to go away without harming the finish.

Thanks for sharing such a wonderful, and rare, rifle.

[ehull]

Once again, thanks for the added photos. I suspect that someone at the Rem Museum or archive did some switching of parts. You have number 10 frame and I have number 10 barrel and forestock (carbine). I have number 12 frame. You have number 28 barrel. The rear sight on your rifle barrel looks very like other early rifle sights, so the higher number probably just indicates a progression of arms as the type was developed. I would not go so far as to say that yours is the "earliest" gun because number 2 with matching numbers still exists in a private collection. A variety of these rifles was made for trials purposes in the U.S. and foreign countries before production began in 1867. Your .50 RF caliber is the same as the early .50 Swedish (12x42R), which is essentially the same as the .50-70 but RF, so it is possible your rifle is an 1867 prototype for that model (although the 39" barrel is about 1-1/2" too long). Your info certainly adds to our knowledge of the development of the Remington System in those early years.

[Dick Hosmer]

Having now spent a bit more time with Hoyem ("History and Development of Small Arms Ammunition", Vol. 1), I believe that your rifle is apparently chambered for either RFR25 (.50-70 Peabody, 1862-72, 1.67" case) RFR529 (.50-60 Joslyn, ca. 1865, 1.47" case) RFR30 (".52-70" Sharps, ca. 1865, 1.47" case) or else something VERY similar. All were related, in one degree or another, to government experimentation. So far I have found no "Remington" cartridge of the period. Again thanks for sharing what has to be a very rare rifle.

[Dick Hosmer]

Dear RB66 - with all respect, I have no idea who your un-named friend may be - but, a word to the wise - I can tell you (because they won't) that on the basis of 45 years of collecting, Ed Hull and Gene Myszkowszi know this subject inside and out! As the old saying goes, they have forgotten more than most of us will ever know. When Ed politely infers that your rifle (as fabulous as it is) is probably not the "first one made" it would be wise to give significant weight to his statement. Just my unsolicited $.02 - no offense intended.

[tanpatsu]

Hello Gene,
I examined Andre's Remington brass tag #66 after he shipped it to me last year to examine and photograph..But what I would now love to find out is where brass tag #67 on the Chamber's inventory is?.... Simply because it appears dimensionally to be the identical rifle... But with a center fire breech block.

George Layman