Remington Hepburn No. 3??
-
smbean81
Remington Hepburn No. 3??
I have a gun that I am unable to identify and looking for help. I have been told it resembles a Remington No.3 and I agree. The problem is that it has a Hepburn falling/drop block action with a bottom lever (release/action?). It has a Schuetzen stock with was looks like a brass finish. I have seen hundreds of pictures of No. 3's but none of which have the bottom lever action, they all have the right side lever on the receiver. The caliber of the gun is 38-55, it is stamped on the bottom of the 26-1/2" half round/half octogon barrel. There in a stamp on the top of the barrel that says Remington Arms Co. and a serial number on the receiver of 16022. Other than that I can see no other markings. Is there anyone out there that can shed some light on my issue as to the age or approximate value of the gun.
-
smbean81
Re: Remington Hepburn No. 3??
Yes I have seen the Walker Hepburn but the bottom lever is not nearly as ornate and the barrel is considerably shorter. The end of the barrel has three holes it when you look at it as you are looking down the barrel. They have been machined there and don't know why or if this is some kind of knock off.
-
Dick Hosmer
- Posts: 165
- Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:15 pm
- Contact:
Re: Remington Hepburn No. 3??
Such holes (I'm assumimg they are just slightly assymetric?) are almost always for a "false muzzle" - the lack of which is a pretty serious $$$ shortcoming for a rifle which was supposed to have had one. But, being a loose piece, false muzzles do sometimes get lost.
Many fine target rifles of the period (often .32-40, but .38-55 not unusual) were fired with a charged case and wad, loaded from the breech, but having the bullet seated from the muzzle. Sounds weird, I know, but some very fine shooters claimed that the method produced the very best accuracy.
When the barrel was made, from a blank about 2" longer than final size wanted, a short piece was cut off and then precisely pinned back on BEFORE finish boring and rifling. The "false muzzle" was slightly belled to start the bullet - something NOT desirable at the true point of exit - but allowed (due to have been rifled together) the bullet to be pushed, undeformed, down onto the case. A false muzzle piece was always provided with a plate which blocked the line of sight, preventing the shooter from firing with it attached.
Many fine target rifles of the period (often .32-40, but .38-55 not unusual) were fired with a charged case and wad, loaded from the breech, but having the bullet seated from the muzzle. Sounds weird, I know, but some very fine shooters claimed that the method produced the very best accuracy.
When the barrel was made, from a blank about 2" longer than final size wanted, a short piece was cut off and then precisely pinned back on BEFORE finish boring and rifling. The "false muzzle" was slightly belled to start the bullet - something NOT desirable at the true point of exit - but allowed (due to have been rifled together) the bullet to be pushed, undeformed, down onto the case. A false muzzle piece was always provided with a plate which blocked the line of sight, preventing the shooter from firing with it attached.
-
smbean81
Re: Remington Hepburn No. 3??
Thank you for your insight. I have come into some knowledge of my own that is quite perplexing. The action is now believed to be a Ballard and I have seen pictures to agree. What is confusing is that from my little bit of research is that Ballard worked with Marlin in some way, which does me no justice as to why the barrel is stamped Remington Arms Co. I am in agreement that the barrel was manufactured with a false muzzle and you are correct to assume that the false muzzle is now gone. Does anyone know if it is possible to have put an "aftermarket" barrel on the rifle? Currently befuttled.
-
Dick Hosmer
- Posts: 165
- Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:15 pm
- Contact:
Re: Remington Hepburn No. 3??
Someone please correct me if !'m wrong, but did not Remington ALWAYS sell barrels separately? I KNOW they did in the very early days.
Ballard, of course, is another icon of target shooting from the "golden age".
I would not worry too much about mixed parts. I'm not sure the line between "right" and "wrong" is all that clear in the case of fine target rifles which could well have been almost 'custom-built' in some cases. Companies were a lot more customer-friendly in those days. If the work is high-quality, and clearly "old", I'd suspect it is PROBABLY "as made."
Ballard, of course, is another icon of target shooting from the "golden age".
I would not worry too much about mixed parts. I'm not sure the line between "right" and "wrong" is all that clear in the case of fine target rifles which could well have been almost 'custom-built' in some cases. Companies were a lot more customer-friendly in those days. If the work is high-quality, and clearly "old", I'd suspect it is PROBABLY "as made."
-
JV Puleo
Re: Remington Hepburn No. 3??
Realistically, you can't make a new false muzzle because it was a separate piece that was rifled with the barrel. In fact, the ends were turned flat, the pins fitted and the barrel finish bored with the false muzzle in place. If you were to cut off 2" of the muzzle, the piece would be off by the thickness of the saw blade... I've thought about the problem several times and I can think of a way it might be done but its not something I would even consider trying other than on a gun of my own and preferably one with a such a poor bore it would hardly matter if it didn't work as planned. It would be a really involved operation and I doubt it would be worth doing.
I have seen, on medium quality muzzloaders, a false muzzle that was unrifled. It was obviously intended to facilitate starting the bullet, and maybe cleaning without damaging the inside edge of the muzzle...What you are describing is essentially a Pope-style breech/muzzleloader albeit not one made by Harry Pope. This design enjoyed a brief popularity, largely because Pope championed the idea and he was so famous as a barrel maker and rifle shot. It also required an elaborate Pope-style bullet starter that pushed the bullet into the muzzle with an absolutely smooth single motion. The idea was to create the least possible deformation of the bullet.
I agree with Dick that the mix of names and parts etc is of little import. You have a custom target rifle which is interesting in and of itself. Nearly all of the best ones, especially the Popes, are modified in that they didn't come from the factory in that configuration.
I have seen, on medium quality muzzloaders, a false muzzle that was unrifled. It was obviously intended to facilitate starting the bullet, and maybe cleaning without damaging the inside edge of the muzzle...What you are describing is essentially a Pope-style breech/muzzleloader albeit not one made by Harry Pope. This design enjoyed a brief popularity, largely because Pope championed the idea and he was so famous as a barrel maker and rifle shot. It also required an elaborate Pope-style bullet starter that pushed the bullet into the muzzle with an absolutely smooth single motion. The idea was to create the least possible deformation of the bullet.
I agree with Dick that the mix of names and parts etc is of little import. You have a custom target rifle which is interesting in and of itself. Nearly all of the best ones, especially the Popes, are modified in that they didn't come from the factory in that configuration.