HELP! Remington Rolling Block

[JimMill]

The book "Firearms of the American West" by Garavaglia & Worman pg 163 talks about the Remington 45 bottleneck sporting cartridge. It's also listed in the early Remington catalogs as .45-50-300 & .45-45-290. I believe Dave at Lone Star rifle has an early #1 chambered in the .45 bottleneck cartridge.

Hope this helps.

Jim

[Yellowhouse]

Thanks for the wake up Jim cause sometimes we (I) tend to overlook the obscure. There is a reference to a obvious BN round called the 45-100 in Cartridges of the World. I'm not a great fan of this book which has many obvious errors but it does at least list this cartridge and gives specs.

However, given the early serial of this rifle, I seriously doubt that the original chambering was in 45 cal of any kind. But, if it is a Remington barrel and in 45-100 that would be rare indeed!

Looked up the specs for the 45-100 Rem BN and it has a rim diameter of .645 which is very close to what you described. The case length is listed at 2.63. You're still going to need a chamber casting to nail it down.

What kind of sights are on this rifle, buckhorn rear and blade front or????

[oldremguy]

Hi,

It could be the 11x59R Fench Gras or the 11x59R Vickers.
Measurements for the
French Gras are: ************* Vickers are:
Overall Length 2.34 ************** 2.35
Rim dia. .661 ******************** .659
Dia. of case before rim .541 *** .539
Dia. at shoulder .531 ************ .525
Dia. at neck .465 **************** .473
Lenght to shoulder 1.580 ****** 1.56
Bullet dia. .445 ****************** .442

Hope this helps.
Have a good day,
Matt

[JimMill]

Is this the same gun: www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=161231852

It has the same serial number. It's listed as a 44-77 not a 45. Was the caliber restamped?

Jim

[oldremguy]

It's the same gun and it looks like the caliber has been restamped.
You can see the same crack in the stock on both guns.

Matt

[JimMill]

It now has a set trigger also. I hope the person who wins the auction knows its been altered.

Jim

[roundtop]

The rifle here was an original Adirondack model in 45-45-290 Remington sporting if the 45 stamp is authenic. A fairly scarce gun. This is the only 45 cal listed in the early ads and too early for a 45-70. Last patent would be 1868. These early rifles do not have the name and address on the barrel. Ed

[Yellowhouse]

The rifle here was an original Adirondack model in 45-45-290 Remington sporting if the 45 stamp is authenic. A fairly scarce gun. This is the only 45 cal listed in the early ads and too early for a 45-70. Last patent would be 1868. These early rifles do not have the name and address on the barrel. Ed

If thats the case then someone altered an even rarer model than whats being offered.

Wonder what Lardog has to say about this now? No offense offered or intended!!!!!

[roundtop]

From lardogs measurements it would appear some one rechambered the rifle before he got it. The 45-45 sporting case is less than 2 inches. It was first listed by UMC in 1869 for the Remington rifle but earliest ad I know of is 1871 for the rifle which is consistent with the few ser. nos. known. I have 2 roundtops in 45-45 which I shoot. Case dimensions at rim and head are same as 43 Spanish and 44-77 so making cases is no problem. It is a bottleneck cartridge. Too bad about the restamping. It could have been relined and put back to original caliber. Another example of a faker shooting himself in the foot?? Ed

[Yellowhouse]

Jerry, didn't LarDog report his as serial #725? Maybe I missed something.

And while that one on gunbroker may now be a 44-77 and a good shooter...evidence is pointing toward alteration. Did it have a single set trigger when you owned it?

[roundtop]

Lardog states that the measuring device he used shows a .450 bore. This is the nominal size before a 45 cal. barrel is rifled. A 44-77 nominal bore is around .440. A .450 plug will not go down any 44-77 barrel I have ever measured. Ed

[Yellowhouse]

Lardog states that the measuring device he used shows a .450 bore. This is the nominal size before a 45 cal. barrel is rifled. A 44-77 nominal bore is around .440. A .450 plug will not go down any 44-77 barrel I have ever measured. Ed

If Lardogs measurements are correct then perhaps its always been a 44-77.

[roundtop]

A .450 guage will not go in a 44-77 barrel. Dave Higginbotham at Lone Star tells me that a 44-77 bore before rifling is .438. The bore diameter is still there after the grooves are put in. Any how Jerry did a good job restoring the old piece. The seller says no refunds so let the buyer beware.

[roundtop]

Jerry would you have the assembly numbers off the left side of the tangs? We are still researching these early rifles and any information is a big help. Thanks, Ed

[JimMill]

I wonder if the 45 marking is still on the barrel? The seller does not mention it in the gunbroker ad. I've always wanted a real early #1 sporter with the deep crescent butt plate. Not many found for sale though.

Jim