I have an old Remington shotgun my grandfather left to me. It is a 12 gauge side by side, both barrels being full choke, I believe. The barrel length is 30 inches and the overall length is 48 inches. The serial number is 303975, stamped on all pieces. There is another number stamped on the barrel and the receiver, 4011. On the bottom of the receiver is the date Oct. 30th 94 which may be the patent date or the date of manufacture. Both barrels are stamped on the bottom with the letter K and the letter P, not together, a couple of inches apart. On one barrel is stamped a large number 7 next to a smaller number 8. My grandfather was born in 1888 and passed in 1973. I am 64 years old and remember this piece from my earliest years with him. Can anyone tell me some things about this gun?
Gary Giese,
Dinuba, CA
Old Side By Side
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Re: Old Side By Side
Remington Model 1900s are a simplified, cheaper, version of the Model 1894, built on the same patents -- No. 528,507 and No. 528,508 both granted Oct. 30, 1894. The Model 1900s were all K-Grades, with E added to the designation if the gun had ejectors and D if it had Damascus barrels -- K-, KE-, KD-, or KED-Grades. The K- and KE-Grades had Remington Steel barrels. The Model 1900s had a snap-on/off forearm and their serial numbers were in the 300,000 range, often preceded with a stock letter Q. Your Grandfather's gun. 303975 would be a first year gun from 1900. The Remington records showed just over 98,500 Model 1900s produced.
You need to check out Charles G. Semmer's book "Remington Double Shotguns." It is available from the author 7885 Cyd Drive, Denver, CO 80221, for $60 plus $5 shipping and handling. It is invaluable if you are going to shoot, invest, collect or play in the Remington double gun field. Remington supplied a number of different pattern Damascus barrels on these old doubles. A picture of their salesman’s sample of the various styles of Damascus available is shown on page 275 of Semmer's book.
Remington Arms Co. stamped the actual pellet counts of their test patterns on the rear barrel lug of their Model 1889 hammer doubles and their Model 1894 and 1900 hammerless doubles. If the number is three digits, that is the count, if the number is two digits a leading 3 is implied. From surviving hang-tags we know the standard load they used to target 12-gauge guns was 1 1/4 ounces of #8 going 511 pellets to the load. My 12-gauge KE-Grade Model 1900 is stamped 33 on the left and 24 on the right. That would be 333/511 = 65% left and 324/511 = 64% right, or about improved modified in both barrels. The chokes measure .027" in both barrels of that gun.
I don't think anyone has really decoded those letters and hashmarks down the barrel tube bottoms. I've posted this information before, but if someone with a lot of Remingtons, add these to what they have and what is in Charles' book, maybe a pattern will emerge.
1906 12-gauge KE-Grade has /// K E Y
1907 12-gauge KE-Grade has L K E Y
1909 16-gauge KE-Grade has X K E A1
1896 12-gauge AE-Grade has P A
1906 12-gauge FE Trap has /// F E G 13
1894 12-gauge BE-Grade has B J and a poorly struck E or an F
1907 CEO-Grade 12-gauge has /// M
1905 DEO-Grade 16-gauge has X O
In some cases you can get the grade as in the KE and FE. My BE-Grade has Chain Damascus barrels, and on the Remington Damascus salesman sample the Chain Damascus is labeled CHAIN J. So, B for the grade, J for the barrel material and E for ejectors?!? Hmmm....
Just from looking at my little list there seems to be a difference in the markings on the early guns, 1894 and 1896 and those from the later years 1905 to 1909. Anyone willing to share marks on 1897 to 1904 guns? I also noted that in my later guns both 16-gauges have an X and the 12-gauges all have ///. I see Semmer shows the barrels of 12-gauge KE-Grade 361550 and it has the same /// K E Y as my slightly earlier 12-Gauge KE-Grade.
You need to check out Charles G. Semmer's book "Remington Double Shotguns." It is available from the author 7885 Cyd Drive, Denver, CO 80221, for $60 plus $5 shipping and handling. It is invaluable if you are going to shoot, invest, collect or play in the Remington double gun field. Remington supplied a number of different pattern Damascus barrels on these old doubles. A picture of their salesman’s sample of the various styles of Damascus available is shown on page 275 of Semmer's book.
Remington Arms Co. stamped the actual pellet counts of their test patterns on the rear barrel lug of their Model 1889 hammer doubles and their Model 1894 and 1900 hammerless doubles. If the number is three digits, that is the count, if the number is two digits a leading 3 is implied. From surviving hang-tags we know the standard load they used to target 12-gauge guns was 1 1/4 ounces of #8 going 511 pellets to the load. My 12-gauge KE-Grade Model 1900 is stamped 33 on the left and 24 on the right. That would be 333/511 = 65% left and 324/511 = 64% right, or about improved modified in both barrels. The chokes measure .027" in both barrels of that gun.
I don't think anyone has really decoded those letters and hashmarks down the barrel tube bottoms. I've posted this information before, but if someone with a lot of Remingtons, add these to what they have and what is in Charles' book, maybe a pattern will emerge.
1906 12-gauge KE-Grade has /// K E Y
1907 12-gauge KE-Grade has L K E Y
1909 16-gauge KE-Grade has X K E A1
1896 12-gauge AE-Grade has P A
1906 12-gauge FE Trap has /// F E G 13
1894 12-gauge BE-Grade has B J and a poorly struck E or an F
1907 CEO-Grade 12-gauge has /// M
1905 DEO-Grade 16-gauge has X O
In some cases you can get the grade as in the KE and FE. My BE-Grade has Chain Damascus barrels, and on the Remington Damascus salesman sample the Chain Damascus is labeled CHAIN J. So, B for the grade, J for the barrel material and E for ejectors?!? Hmmm....
Just from looking at my little list there seems to be a difference in the markings on the early guns, 1894 and 1896 and those from the later years 1905 to 1909. Anyone willing to share marks on 1897 to 1904 guns? I also noted that in my later guns both 16-gauges have an X and the 12-gauges all have ///. I see Semmer shows the barrels of 12-gauge KE-Grade 361550 and it has the same /// K E Y as my slightly earlier 12-Gauge KE-Grade.
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geesenest
Re: Old Side By Side
My barrel lug shows 38 on the left and 36 on the right, about the same as yours, so my barrels are probably both improved modified also? By the way, I appreciate your answering my inquiry. Thank you.