I think I have a pretty early #1 sporting rifle

[ODMMDO]

I know that you all will let me know if I’m right or misinformed.
I don’t know how many photos I can attach but here goes…

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The only numbers or text that I see are those in the photos.
From what I have gathered from research on the Net, being the top of the receiver is round vs flats, indicates that it is early. Could the 917 be the serial number, I hope that it is. I have read about “assembly numbers” and don’t know if 917 is an assembly or serial number.

The 44 cartridge marking is on the bottom flat of the barrel. The only markings not shown in the photos is a dot on the top flat of the barrel that lines up with a strike mark on the receiver as though they were “line up” marks.

The lower tang is longer than the upper tang and there are no other numbers or text on the lower tang other than the “917”.

Thanks in advance for your insight!

[marlinman93]

On a Sporting Rifle like yours the round top receivers, deep crescent buttplate, and rounded nose cap are all features of very early Rolling Block Sporting Rifles. The location of the serial number near the last lower tang screw is correct also, and not an assembly number as those were on the sides of the tangs on Sporting Rifles.
That's a very unusual way of stamping the serial number with the "1" above the other numbers. I've never seen any that were done this way? Have you removed the forearm yet to see how the serial number is marked there? It should match the lower tang, and maybe be in a row instead of staggered.

[ODMMDO]

Thanks much Marlinman, I did go down to my shop and removed the forend screw. It gave some resistance but came out without any damage to the screw or the forend but the forend was not cooperating and I didn’t want to damage it so I replaced the screw.

I am curious but what with over a century of dried lubricants resisting my efforts, well I’m not so curious as to risk damaging the forend.

Someone else probably wouldn’t be so cautious but it would break my heart if I damaged it.

I have no intention of selling it, I got it for what I believe was a steal so I’m happy with it as is and your expertise confirmed my suspicions regarding its age. I’ve got a pretty nice piece and I’m happy.

Thanks much!

[marlinman93]

I wouldn't force it either, as it's not worth damaging the forearm. Have you determined which .44 it's chambered for yet? Could be a few options with the ".44 CTGE" marking from a .44 Long RF or CF, or a .44-77 Bottleneck, or a .44-90 BN.

[ODMMDO]

I have not, I do know that it is a rimfire due to the location of the firing pin in the block. Were there more than one .44 rimfire cartridge options?

Years ago I read about chamber casts though I've never had reason to try to do it, I'm assuming that would be the sure fire way to know. As I recall they used bismuth. I think I remember seeing that for sale by Brownells. Is this still the method used? I vaguely seem to recall some used molten sulfur for the cast (is my memory failing me or was that used at one time?).

I've done quite a bit of metalworking in my day and have done some casting, mostly pewter but also bronze and sterling silver. Pewter you can cast in just about anything, (wood, cuttlefish, plaster of paris, even paper!) but for silver I know I had to heat the ingot mold prior to pouring, I assume one has to heat the chamber end of the barrel to make an accurate cast. If so, what is the best way to approach that without risking damage?

Thanks much for the info, I find this gun most interesting, don't we all wish they could talk?

[marlinman93]

Since it's a rimfire it should be a .44 Long RF as that's the only one I know of. That explains why it's in nice shape since .44 Long RF hasn't been made in many decades, so it sat unused.
You can buy lathe turned adapter cases that use .22 blanks to ignite the powder. They work great, but are a bit of a pain to knock out the fired blanks so they can be reloaded. Dixie Gun Works used to sell them in sets of 6 for .44 RF revolvers, but they'll work in rifles just as well. I bought .44 round balls and used liquid alox on the balls to stick them on the top of the adapter cases. The .44 round balls are a little small, but let you play with it. If you can find .452" round balls they work better as the .44 RF bores are pretty large.

[ODMMDO]

Great info, I wasn’t aware of such things. I did some research and found a website called Quality Cartridge, they make adapters. Under .44 long RF he has it listed as “coming soon” but the website doesn’t seem to be very up to date. I think the most current date I saw was 2022. They have a newsletter that I signed up for but I’d be surprised if I got anything from them. There was an area on their site about COVID so that gives you a clue of how up to date it probably is, or isn’t.

I do have a lathe, do you know of anyone who might have a drawing of one of these adapters?

[marlinman93]

Here are the rimfire adapters Dixie sells. Not cheap, but doubt you'd make them for much savings. The diameter should be checked against your chamber to see if theirs for .44 round ball are the same as your chamber. Would require you to do a Cerrosafe chamber casting. You can buy Cerrosafe type material at Rotometals cheap. It melts at the temperature of boiling water, so a soup can bent to a spout shape and set in a pan of boiling water will melt it easily. Then just plug the bore with a patch about 1" ahead of the chamber and pour it full. Be sure to remove the extractor first, and put some putty around the chamber to keep the casting from flowing into the wrong places.

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/pag ... 44+rimfire

[ODMMDO]

Thanks much for the link! However when I clicked on the product it says “unavailable”, yet I was able to put it in my cart. Seemed like they would accept payment but it is unusual that a seller would let you pay for something that they don’t have available.

I’ll give them a call tomorrow and see what the situation with that is.

If they are available for order, I’ll do the chamber casting as you describe. I might as well have some of the Cerrosafe on hand anyway so I’ll order some of that today.

Thanks so much for your help and expertise!

[marlinman93]

You're welcome.
The Cerrosafe can be used over and over again, so keep the casting for future use again.

[ODMMDO]

I have the Cerrosafe on order, got it for a couple bucks cheaper on eBay.

I contacted Rocky Mountain Cartridge and sent them a screenshot of the Dixie Gunworks link you gave me. I asked them if they make similar or know of anyone who does. This is the response that I got:

We do not make rimfire cartridge adapters, and we are not aware of anyone currently manufacturing them. We do not have the tooling to make rimfire adapters.

I do think that if I had a detailed drawing of one that I could make one or have one made. I think I’ll make a post on this forum to see if anyone has any of them for sale, maybe someone has them on eBay. I’ve got a quest!

[ODMMDO]

So I called Dixie Gunworks. They do have some cartridge adapters on order but they will not process a backorder and they have no idea when to expect them in. So I guess I just keep checking back now and again. Many places have a "Notify Me" button, you give them your email address and you get an email when they are available. Apparently DGW does not have that option.

I guess I'll check back until I do it so many times I just give up. Anyway without your help and insight I never would have realized that I can actually shot this rifle. I also posed a request in the WTB section and maybe that will bear some fruit. Either way (I never thought I would be able to shoot it when I bought it) I think it is a great rifle and an interesting piece of firearms history! Already one of my favorites in my "stable".

[marlinman93]

Since you've done a lot of metal working, you might decide to make the adapters yourself. Just buy some .22 blanks and once you make up a Cerrosafe casting then you can turn a case and bore and shape it to fit a .22 blank in it. Give one a try and once you've got it you can make as many copies as you like to make up and shoot. Load them with BP powder or light smokeless charges using .44 Special data.

[ODMMDO]

Sounds like a plan. I’ve got the Cerrosafe, it came in on Monday.

I’ll let you know when I get to it. Not of the highest priority, I would have preferred to just buy several adapters. The photos help a lot and being a straight sided cartridge it shouldn’t be too difficult of a task.

I do shoot black powder (in replica firearms) so I have a good amount of FFFG, I might have some FFG but I’m not sure until I would check. I have some bullet molds too but I’m not sure what sizes, bought some mixed sizes in a local auction some time back, haven’t used them though.

Could one use large rifle primers? They are considerably less expensive than.22 blanks. The placement of the primer might not work out relative to the firing pin, plus the fact that the firing pin appears to be flat on the end…maybe I’ve just answered my own question. Amazon does sell .22 blanks for a bit over $20 for 100. I doubt that I’d ever shoot even 100 rounds out of the old girl.

Thanks for the idea, I think I’ll order a box of blanks today, it will encourage me to get to the rest of the project.

As I told you earlier, I have no intention of selling the gun, unless I end up selling all kinds of things just to eat! But what would you say that this gun is worth? I only paid $600 for it and from similar examples I have seen on the internet I would say that it is worth at least $2000.

[marlinman93]

Large rifle primers wont work as they require a centered firing pin strike. Unless you made the pocket perfectly centered, and then also got the adapter perfectly indexed when chambering it. Considering how little you'll likely shoot this with RF adapter cases I don't think you'll spend a huge amount on .22 blanks.
Bullet size will be determined once you do the chamber casting as the patch you plug the chamber with will be about 1" down the bore so you can measure that part of the casting to determine groove diameter for a proper bullet size.
I think for a nice early #1 Sporter like yours $2000 might be a bit optimistic. Mainly because it's a rimfire version, and that brings the value down to anyone wishing to shoot it. I just sold my very early round top #1 Sporter in May at the CGCA show and it was a centerfire .44 Long. It went for $1500 and that's what I paid for it 20 years ago. I think yours is likely around the $1200-$1300 range; still double what you gave.
Either ffg or fffg will be fine for the .44 Long in this rifle.