Remington Model 11 vs. Browning A-5

[ODHL8103]

Question for Researcher: What were the most significant differences between the Remington Product and the Browning FN product ? Just purchased a 1941 Model 11 (4+1) with 26 inch IC plain barrel made 3 months before Pearl Harbor. The frame has some mottling, and the stock is all original but with a few nicks and scratches (no cracks). Looking at the overruns on the hand checkering, it occurred to me that it appears to have had less attention to fit and finish than many of the A-5's I've seen. That being said, it has an astonishing 3.5 lb trigger and cycles 7/8 and 1 oz shells without a hitch (the friction rings are set correctly, thanks to your comments elsewhere in the forum). Also, did similar pre-war models of Mod 11 and A-5's sell for the same price ? Were they received with equal enthusiasm by the shooting public ? Were there any unique design features, such as magazine capacity, that separated the two ? Do you have any advertisements you would care to share ?

Many Thanks....

Ron Jones

[Researcher]

I'd say the overall fit and finish of the FN built Browning A5/A3 was better than the Remington Autoloading Shotgun/Model 11/Sportsman. Very early on FN added the magazine cut-off switch (for which I've never seen any use), and changed the safety from the lever inside the trigger guard, to the fore and aft safety through the front of the trigger guard. Remington kept the lever inside the trigger guard to about 1928 when they went to the cross-bolt behind the trigger. FN didn't go to the cross-bolt behind the trigger safety until the early 1950s.

As I recall, and I'm on the road away from my research materials, FN added the 16-gauge about 1909. Remington produced only 12-gauges until 1930 when they added the 20-gauge, with the 16-gauge following in 1931. FN didn't produce a 20-gauge A5 until the 1950s, though Remington made 20-gauge A5s for Browning during the 1940s when FN was otherwise occupied.

Remington solid and vent ribs were milled integral with the barrel. I don't know how FN made their ribs.

I know in my local pawn shops, not long ago, equal gauge and condition A5s were nearly twice what a Model 11 or Sportsman could be had for. Lately Model 11/Sportsman seem to be getting some more respect.

I know I have as much fun with my set of three Sportsman that I have barely over $600 in as five figure guns.

[Researcher]

I'd say the overall fit and finish of the FN built Browning A5/A3 was better than the Remington Autoloading Shotgun/Model 11/Sportsman. Very early on FN added the magazine cut-off switch (for which I've never seen any use), and changed the safety from the lever inside the trigger guard, to the fore and aft safety through the front of the trigger guard. Remington kept the lever inside the trigger guard to about 1928 when they went to the cross-bolt behind the trigger. FN didn't go to the cross-bolt behind the trigger safety until the early 1950s.

As I recall, and I'm on the road away from my research materials, FN added the 16-gauge about 1909. Remington produced only 12-gauges until 1930 when they added the 20-gauge, with the 16-gauge following in 1931. FN didn't produce a 20-gauge A5 until the 1950s, though Remington made 20-gauge A5s for Browning during the 1940s when FN was otherwise occupied.

Remington solid and vent ribs were milled integral with the barrel. I don't know how FN made their ribs.

I know in my local pawn shops, not long ago, equal gauge and condition A5s were nearly twice what a Model 11 or Sportsman could be had for. Lately Model 11/Sportsman seem to be getting some more respect.

I know I have as much fun with my set of three Sportsman that I have barely over $600 in as five figure guns.

[ODHL8103]

Thanks, Researcher: Appreciate your filling in those useful historical observations. If you have any ads from the era, would love to have you post some when you return to the office. No wonder I find so few 20 gauge guns. Did FN make a gun comperable to the three shot Sportsman, or was this a market niche that Remington captured exclusively ?

Ron Jones

Addendum: Just talked to a "collector" who has a 16 gauge Sportsman (1937) for sale, and he thinks the 16 and 20 gauge were built on the same frame....and that his 16 gauge, 26 inch plain barrel skeet gun will only weigh about 1-2 ounces more than my 20 gauge Mod 11 with same barrel configuration (but says he has no way to actually weigh the gun). Any comments as to weight comparison ?

Thanks again,
Ron

[Researcher]

Nope!! Each gauge has its own receiver in the Model 11 and the "Sportsman". They are all plenty heavy.

On the Remington Model 31 pump, the 12-gauge was on a large frame with serial numbers beginning at 1 and the 16- and 20-gauges were on a smaller frame with serial numbers starting at 500000.

During the 1930s, FN/Browning offered the A3 in addition to the A5, as their answer to Remington's the "Sportsman."

[remroc]

Are you sure about that Researcher? I just compared a 16 to a 20 and the receivers are the same width and height.

[Researcher]

My 20-gauge "Sportsman" is definitely on a thinner frame than my 16-gauge "Sportsman" and the 16-gauge Model 11 and "Sportsman" have different serial number series than the 20-gauges. There is not a lot of difference, but they are different. The 20-gauge receivers are about .030" thinner than the 16-gauge receivers -- 1.429" and 1.458" respectively across the widest part.

On the Model 31 the 16- and 20-gauges are on the same receiver and they are both in the 500000 serial number series.

[remroc]

You are right again! I just wasn't measuring carefully enough. There is a slight difference.